Insightly_Ep25
===

Jordan Walker: [00:00:00] Well, hi again.

Alyssa McGinn: We're back!

Jordan Walker: We're back. If you tuned into the last episode, we talked about data monetization, which is one of Alyssa's favorite topics of discussion. Today it's my turn to talk about one of my favorite topics. And

Alyssa McGinn: I like how we just were like you get one to nerd out on and you get one to nerd out on.

Jordan Walker: I love that like, because we have kind of a split brain between the two of us.

And we come at data from different [00:01:00] directions within business. So I love that we always have kind of that exchange, but also it makes it really easy to plan these recordings because then it's always you get

Alyssa McGinn: one,

Jordan Walker: I get one

And it just makes it really easy to like go that path. So thank you for being on that same wavelength.

Alyssa McGinn: Yeah. It's like, Different wavelength, but the same at the same time.

Jordan Walker: yeah. So today this is actually something like I've hinted at during some of our previous podcast episodes, but today I really want to talk about just customer experience data. And if you listen to some of our earlier episodes where we were talking about innovation within your business and all the ways that you can innovate within your company using data that goes beyond just optimizing products and services or creating new products.

Customer experience data starts to really lean more into the customer's journey or is totally built [00:02:00] around the customer's journey. And it's how you provide an experience that not only attracts the right type of customers to you, but nurtures the current customers that you have in the right ways that create longevity over time.

One of the reasons why I wanted to talk about this is because as at least in my field within sales and marketing, teams are becoming a lot more comfortable with talking about data. They really love using revenue data. I mean, because everybody loves to talk about ROI. We all want to prove how we're making a company grow and where our successes are. However, when you think about all of the tactics it takes and all of the touch points that you have with a customer, whether it's in person or online, whether it's a conference or your e commerce website, a customer's decision making journey, like we like to build sales pipelines in a very linear fashion, right?

Like, okay, we've got our prospect [00:03:00] list and then the prospect turns into a lead at some point. Maybe there's some steps before they become a customer, and then you've got closed one, closed lost, so on and so forth.

So, that kind of forces us to think about that experience in a linear way. But Alyssa, if you think about any buying decision that you've had to make that wasn't like, I'm hungry, I need to eat. Do you ever feel like you've been able to make that decision like linear, linearly, or is it a

Does it look like this if you're watching us on video? Arm flailing waving guy.

Alyssa McGinn: Yeah, I have this cognitive dissonance around this topic because I sell, like, our services and for the company. I also buy, like, as a consumer, but also for the business.

Jordan Walker: Yeah.

Alyssa McGinn: And it's just funny, like what you said about this linear process. Like I want that to be true of my prospects, yet I'm not like that as a buyer.

Jordan Walker: Right, and neither are your prospects.

Alyssa McGinn: [00:04:00] neither are my prospects. And I've like come to recognize that to some extent, but I still want to force them to take the steps that I've laid out. But as a buyer you know, I'll give you a perfect example. We were considering buying a, program, let's say, and it was to help us to do webinars as a marketing process.

They had this whole thing figured out. It was 7, 000 to buy their whole thing. You get access and their help for a year. We ended up not doing it, but you know, we followed the first three steps. We did an intro call, then we did a discovery. And then, you know, we got to kind of a proposal phase.

But then like there's all these other aspects that come into play.

Like what's our overall marketing strategy for this year who, you know, I think at that time we were kind of considering changing our ideal client and kind of our target audience. And then we had budget and you know, there's all these other factors. And so what seems to be like, okay, [00:05:00] step one, step two, step three, now they're going to close and buy on board.

And then they're going to have this amazing experience with us and then renew like what every business dreams of. It's just not that simple. And so, you know, I felt like as a buyer, I was being forced through this funnel. And so I have this both sides of my brain. It just like collides every time I try to think about that.

Jordan Walker: I mean, so that's a perfect example, and I'm assuming before you even found this one program, you were also doing like research or maybe some other options came up. So that pre sales experience is kind of a cluttered environment. The minute you get plopped into kind of that sales pipeline, like once you got to that point and then it became, okay, now we have all these other decisions that we need to make.

If we only looked at the metrics that aligned in that sales pipeline from the point that that prospect filled out our intro call form to the point that we have not heard [00:06:00] from them now for three months. If you only look at those metrics, it's going to look like, okay, well, we've got an issue here in closing the deal.

So then you put all of your efforts into like, well, how do we close the deal? But in what you just said is a perfect example of,

Alyssa McGinn: We didn't plan this.

Jordan Walker: Yeah, I know this is why this is beautiful. The thing that you said though, is like, once you got to that point, that's when you had to have all these other considerations.

Unless that sales individual is like actually asking you or if there's like some sort of mechanism, like a follow up or whatever that asks you, are you ready to buy and if not, what are some things that are stopping you from moving forward? You'll never have that context unless you have a conversation with someone.

This is where customer experience data comes in. A lot of times when I'm talking to sales and marketing teams specifically, whenever I'm talking about customer experience data, they're like, yeah, this is super cool, but it's not ROI. [00:07:00] Here's the thing though. And so then it becomes like, well, nobody really cares about these types of data points as much as we might care about them because like marketing still needs to do a job and they want to do it strategically.

Sales still needs to do a job and they want to do it strategically But. Even though you can't, so like examples of like customer experience data is anything from website traffic that you're receiving, the number of like hits maybe or engagements that you get on social media, but it's also surveys, it's reviews, it's anecdotes and conversation.

It's literally any interaction that a customer could have with your brand in some way, shape or form. If you are not monitoring what that experience looks like, and you're not looking at it from the, they are literally everywhere and maybe they're cycling through a few stages all the time. You might start putting your focus in an area that doesn't actually [00:08:00] align with the customer. So going back, and that can actually waste a lot of time and budget. Going back to the example that you just gave if we're only focusing on well, how do we close the deal? Maybe we start putting a lot of energy into okay We offer an incentive to get you to sign on or now we're gonna give get you to do like a 30 day Trial before you have to start paying or we're gonna you know, sweeten the deal with all these other little things Which could maybe generate some quick wins just to get the clothes, but maybe you don't actually build a long term Customer, right?

So when we're thinking about customer experience data, it's all of these little interaction touch points. It's literally the way that your customer is engaging with you, but the R. O. I. Type metrics that you can actually or the benchmarks that you can actually look at are things like customer lifetime value, churn rate loyalty, like those are the ways that customer experience data starts to become

[00:09:00] more of a revenue based metric, because if you can say within our process, maybe in those early stages, it's not just they had an intro call, but they also filled out a form that allowed us to see ahead of time what kind of things they would have to consider about their target market, about their strategy, whatever the case may be.

But they wouldn't know that unless they surveyed you or followed up with you to know that that's something they should bake in earlier in their process.

Alyssa McGinn: I just have a thought. Like you said, like, let's hone in on the closing, closing, closing, and for me as a buyer in that scenario, I would think, actually they weren't looking at my business holistically, it's the discovery that was the problem, I think, and I mean, as a buyer, like, there's, there's tons of data and statistics showing that B2B buyers are making Getting on less and less sales calls because they don't wanna be forced through this pipeline.

Yep. The second you get on the call,

Jordan Walker: We don't even want to fill out the form to get an [00:10:00] intro call. Like, no, I'm telling you that I want a thing, but I do not want you calling me five minutes from now.

Alyssa McGinn: No, a hundred percent. And I definitely don't wanna be nagged on email for months and months and months.

Jordan Walker: Oh, with those fun little subject lines of, I've been trying to reach you and you're missing out on, that makes me so irritated. Like, if you want me to flip you off via my computer screen, send me

Alyssa McGinn: one of those emails.

Send me those. Yeah. They think they're being creative, but really they haven't added any value. And I think that's what you're getting at in the customer experience is like, I don't even necessarily think as that buyer, like I don't want you to send me a survey. I want you to when I give you the chance to get on the phone and the call with me, I've, I've offered that opportunity

to value my whole business and not just try to sell me your little webinar program. Because your webinar program, you have to understand fits into a much bigger strategy of a bigger business. And it's not, it's not that hard. And I, I'm taking my own advice [00:11:00] here. It's like, it's not that hard to, to think about, well, how does this impact like their overall strategy?

How can we best implement, into what they're trying to do and what do they actually do? Like people don't even ask me. So, like, what is your business about? What do you do? Who are you trying to reach?

Jordan Walker: Because in that assumption, we know that, like, in that case, what they're reliant upon, and I'm making an assumption just based off of the way that the sales process has gone and kind of the lack of attention to experience at this point, they're banking on volume. Okay, we get a hundred inquiries in a week.

We really only need 20 of those to close. So like you get on volume. Okay, well, but in order to get volume, how much money are you having to spend to get in front of that many individuals and create that urgency? And so you're thinking of like, okay, well, you have to have the time and energy and team capacity to generate the content that's constantly out there creating touch points.

Maybe you've got a [00:12:00] hefty advertising budget just so that you can stay on the top of the Google search results and paid search. And then you've got some demand gen going and. You know, all of that, but like, if you start paying attention to, the experience itself, like, using this exact example. If they focus more on that discovery, not only are they able to get anecdotes that could feed back into your CRM system or wherever you're capturing these like call notes, that helps them tailor the rest of that buying experience so that you feel like you heard me, you understand my business.

I now feel comfortable asking you to be a part of this consideration conversation that we're having because you've proven to me that you're an expert and you understand. But then even beyond that sale, you now have details to where then you can now go back and nurture them and say, Hey, Alyssa, I remember you talking about how you were trying to use this program for X, Y, and Z.

Have you tried it yet? How's it working for you? Do you [00:13:00] need any support? Like that is when that goes from a transactional high volume, lack of experience, like if I get mad at this tool a few times, I'm cancelling my contract and I'm going somewhere else too. We now have a partnership, you understand, and maybe even if I get a little upset about something or some friction occurs at some point, like I still care, I still like this partnership enough to not jump ship completely.

Like that is how you build longevity and that customer relationship. And that's why customer experience data is so important. So, okay. A few reasons why it's important. Like first, we already kind of touched on it. We can't assume that humans are rational decision makers. Like we are erratic and we have short attention spans.

And unless it really is a, this is a high priority maker break for my business today, you could take as much time as you want and get [00:14:00] influenced by a number of competitors, because if you think that you and your product are special in this marketplace, I guarantee there are at least 10 others that are kind of like you already. So, we can't assume that humans are rational. The more that you are looking at your customer experience data in alignment with a customer journey, The better you can get at refining your target markets, identifying segments, and literally going out and finding other people who look just like your most valuable customer.

Because you've already got an idea of how they behave with you.

T he other reason why it's important is what I was just talking about a second ago. It helps alleviate friction. Anytime we have friction in an experience, whether it's during the buying process or after the buying process, if we get irritated with something, That's red flags for us to start thinking about.

Is this worth my money? Is this worth my time? And that also, you know, those lessons from the past are what stops us from engaging in longer term contracts up front [00:15:00] too.

Alyssa McGinn: Some of the companies that get away with this are the leaders in the industry or there's only one of them like this? I mean, we have plenty of people that we talk to that's like, we have to be on this software, even though we hate it because it's the only thing that does XYZ.

And so at that point, like the equation is like, you have upset customers, but they don't go anywhere. And like the software can like milk that like for all that it's worth until there's a competitor, you know, that could.

Jordan Walker: Until someone gets so irritated with it that they go and build it themselves, you know, and at that point you have built up no referrals, you know, you have zero advocacy of anybody like that conversation probably looks like I have to use this tool, but I don't recommend it if you can find something else

Alyssa McGinn: Yeah, try to find else, if you do, let me know.

Jordan Walker: Like if you find something, you call me like I'll go in on it with you.

Alyssa McGinn: Okay, want to share something cool. This is a guy that I know who he is a founder, he has his own software and he sells into, like, accounting firms and, like, [00:16:00] professional services

Jordan Walker: Okay. Cool.

Alyssa McGinn: It's, his whole mission is to reduce friction, but in onboarding. So anyway, he,

Jordan Walker: Onboarding with customers or employees.

Alyssa McGinn: Customers. They have all the documents and it's just, it's a hard process to get things up and going. But I'm talking more about his internal processes. He's studied, like, buyer trends and this kind of whole landscape changing.

People don't want to get on calls. People want to decide. They want to research you. They want to know. And so he's built this I guess it's like a lead magnet, or I don't know exactly what he would call it. But it's called, like, Build Your Own Adventure. Yeah. And so he's like, it starts with a video.

You click on the link, and it's a video of him being like, Hey, you know, like, I recognize that buyers want autonomy. They want to know everything. What are you looking for today? And it's like two or three different options. It's like I'm really interested in your software and I have an urgent need right now, or I see that you do these other things that I want to learn more, and then that directs them.

It's like a whole what are those things [00:17:00] called? Like a tree. Yeah. And so he's built this whole thing out just for his own leads, so then by, end with, like, When they book a call, they have to answer some very specific questions. He can score them based on what kind of buyer they are. So he looks at like, okay, they're a DIY buyer.

They want to just like, kind of know, or all the way down to like, I think there's like five categories. And he has this whole thing and

Jordan Walker: That is, that is, that's literally a great example of this. Kind of piggybacking off of that, I was talking to a client a few weeks ago, I did some research for, they have an ag product that they sell, they have a manufacturing facility in Missouri, and it's very much one of the, like it is a higher dollar ag product for a meat farm.

And so, they know that they have a certain type of buyer, but the buyer is very relationship driven. So, like, while they'll buy, smaller supplies, items for their farms and ranches on e commerce sites, [00:18:00] for something like this, it's kind of like, I want to touch it, I want to feel it, I want to see it, I need to understand it kind of a deal.

Well, when we were looking at their e commerce platform, though, it's really just the way that it was built is you see product, you buy product. Just like standard e commerce. Just like if it was any of those like smaller value supply items that were easy. Like I could go and buy it at Walmart or I can buy it from my like favorite supplier

Alyssa McGinn: Like a rake or something?

Jordan Walker: Over here, right?

But that was their only options when we were looking at the user behavior of it. Like, I mean, there were some issues in like the shopping cart that we could have explored and all of that kind of stuff. But where we actually learned the most is by going to forums and reviews. where people were talking about looking for a product like this.

And we like literally mined Reddit threads to capture like different comments and anecdotes that people were sharing like, Oh, when I bought mine, this is what I was looking for. These are the [00:19:00] questions that I was asking

We pulled all of that in to a tool that I use to run like sentiment and messaging analysis to run themes.

And what we found is that the product, like we were kind of believing that like the price of the product. And the fact that you, like, were ordering it online and not touching and feeling it beforehand was the issue in selling at a higher volume. What we kind of learned though is that they literally didn't know what product they needed based on how many, like, so in this case, it's a a chicken meat bird kind of scenario.

They didn't know what size they needed for the number of birds that they were harvesting.

Alyssa McGinn: Oh.

Jordan Walker: And so in that exact same example, like what we were talking about is, well, rather than just letting them come to the site. And making it easy for them to find this product, that's not enough.

We have to help them figure out which is best for them if they don't want to pick up the phone and call somebody. So why not have a funnel on that homepage that's like, okay, do you have fewer than 20 birds? Do you have [00:20:00] 21 to 50? Do you have 50 or more? And then like, here are your product recommendations because if you have fewer than 20, you're probably not actually ready for this.

If the product that they would be selling is if you're not only trying to like, you know, feed yourself and your family, but you're also now wanting to like sell meat in other cases. So now you're harvesting a lot more. So I, I know weird example, but same like kind of concept. If we were purely only looking at shopping cart data, we would have thought like, and I mean, we did have the assumption of, well, here's some things that we could improve upon.

That could enhance or like alleviate some friction, but if we didn't go through and look at the comments and see how people were actually talking about what they were buying, we would have completely missed. I mean, you can take some good educated guesses on it just based on other industries, but we would have probably missed that.

That is the way that we should be funneling people through the process.

Alyssa McGinn: And I think that's applicable for [00:21:00] any all like from this guy that sells software to, you know, this ag product. And as a buyer, what I thought of was Amazon and how, when you're on there, like, it'll tell you based on reviews and like what you've bought before and what you've returned, like what size you should get.

And that is amazing.

Jordan Walker: And it works every time. Like if, if I hate to say it, but like if Amazon says like, this is typically like what you order, we would, I do trust it because it works every time. They have not led me astray

Alyssa McGinn: Me either. And like the fact that I know that they've like mined all the reviews because sometimes like I'm like a typical size medium, right?

Like most things I would buy in a medium

Jordan Walker: But if something runs small

Alyssa McGinn: small. I I don't want to necessarily look, I used to look through everything,

Jordan Walker: Mm hmm.

Alyssa McGinn: But I also, this is funny cause it goes to this thought is that this other guy I saw on Twitter, he was like, One tool that I wish that there was is like a Google Chrome extension.

That had all of my sizes. [00:22:00] And any site that I would be on, that like, would buy clothes

Jordan Walker: This doesn't exist or does it

Alyssa McGinn: he, he's never found it.

Jordan Walker: Well, somebody needs to make it because I'm already on board.

Alyssa McGinn: Same! That's one of the worst things, like, looking at the sizing charts, I'm like, I don't really even know

Jordan Walker: Well, yeah, because I mean, we're also dumb, dumb Americans and like a lot of things that I'm looking at is in like the, you know, the metric system.

Alyssa McGinn: right? I know.

Jordan Walker: I'm like, I don't know what meters, is that the same as a yard?

Alyssa McGinn: Well, I'm just lazy too. And I'm like, if it doesn't fit, I'll just return it

Jordan Walker: But this is a good example of showing that, like, you're not only, so from an Amazon perspective, like, they're alleviating friction in our buying experience, which then means that we will typically go and explore there first, or we trust it more, but on the back half of it, they're probably seeing fewer returns, which is actually saving them money because they're not having to offer free returns and and cluttering up their warehouses with returns that they can't really [00:23:00] resell.

So then that waste has to go somewhere and none of us are really happy about what happens to all that waste, right? So like in a tiny way that is actually like helping solving a problem while also helping the company maintain a higher level profitability.

Alyssa McGinn: Which is great. I'm all for that

Jordan Walker: Yeah, I am too. I'm just a tree hugger though and it kinda, like, you know, when we get into that kind of stuff, I'm like, oh, waste.

Alyssa McGinn: I think I'm glad that it's better for me and easier for me and that it has secondary or primary benefits. I don't know what they're doing it for, but it's also like, I would love to shop more on boutique websites or like small business websites. They just don't make it that easy.

Jordan Walker: But that's where like Shopify, I think has really been focusing on their tool. Like at least if you're that small business boutique, because one, they've made it affordable for you to use their platform. They've done a lot of the user behavior research on what helps somebody navigate an e commerce website.

A lot of their templates are, built [00:24:00] less for, where, like, some sites, like Awix and whatnot, they might have templates that are more, just based off of aesthetics, but Shopify kind of tries to build it to where it's, form and function together because they know what the user's journey is.

They want to give you as many payment type options to use so that you're not just restricted with, one type of payment solution. They've incorporated all of these things so that it can be better for smaller businesses to run a more effective e commerce experience

Alyssa McGinn: I still think even with that there's room for this Google Chrome extension . That is like, you've gone through, you've measured yourself one time. You put it on there and that's amazing. Cause that just enhances that.

Jordan Walker: Well think about do you use honey

Alyssa McGinn: Yes, the coupons.

Jordan Walker: Or like Ibotta

You know, what was it? It was like retail me, not

Alyssa McGinn: Oh, oh

Jordan Walker: Ibotta now. Think about if you are, I would be very interested if I were a company, like an [00:25:00] Ibotta, if you added something like that and if that actually helped improve, even your experience, because now you're not just a coupon type app helping people get money, but you're helping them make great decisions across a bunch of different websites all at once.

Hey, I bought a, if you do that, like we get just a little cut, just a little cut. I mean, I guess the dude on Twitter should also get credit for this

Alyssa McGinn: Well lets see where they hear from first

Jordan Walker: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're not gonna, we don't know who it was on Twitter, so good luck finding it.

Okay, so a couple, I already mentioned a couple reasons why customer experience data is important.

One, because we make decisions in a lot of different ways. We're not gonna know how somebody. How our segments are really creating their shopping experience unless we explore it. But also anytime we can reduce friction in an experience that does increase ROI. The Amazon example that we just gave, like you're going to buy more frequently, you're going to [00:26:00] trust the platform, you're going to not have headaches of like making returns or never returning something, you know, which is my issue.

I will just sell it or donate it to someone.

Alyssa McGinn: Yeah.

Jordan Walker: But those are really like the key reasons why it's important. And if you can show your user's journey and their experience and tie it to transactions, but also that engagement level of, okay, maybe they're not buying more, but what other ways are they showing advocacy and engagement with us?

Like that starts to increase your customer lifetime value as well. So if you are interested in getting started in a customer experience data and reviewing it, there are three areas that I think that every company should start with. The first is segmentation data. And I think that you guys do this a lot with InfoFluency, like at least from the revenue and the transactional standpoint is being able to segment based on your valuable customers, their product [00:27:00] mix, their frequency.

All of that kind of stuff. That is beautiful. That is a great place to start with your experience data because you have to know what customer segments exist. And in some cases, it's not really that, you know, we've had this conversation a lot where who we think our most valuable customers are, aren't always the most valuable customers just because they purchase a lot of dollar signs with us.

So kind of looking at what value looks like for your organization with transactions, but also again, frequency of purchase their engagement and their advocacy. Are they referring others to you? Like that should all kind of go into that segmentation because then from there, you can then start to break out those segments and say, okay, if we've got a super valuable client type here Are there ways that we can maybe improve their experience and increase sales?

Alyssa McGinn: One thought on that

Jordan Walker: Huh.

Alyssa McGinn: Like, we've talked about this too, and you [00:28:00] mentioned it a little bit, but like you have, when you segment your customers, you can automatically just pull out an ideal client profile. Yeah.

Because of the concentration of the attributes rises to the top. Yes. And so to your point earlier, like once you have that even maybe the top,

let's say like two or three attribute mixes, then you can effectively go out and find more like them. But I think there's some disconnect and I don't know if it's fear or what but like that would mean less volume and more quality. And, but that's scary to people because that's not how things have been done.

Jordan Walker: Yes. And I do work with a few organizations that are kind of going through that right now where they and so we kind of call this like customer centricity where you have like your client, your ideal client types. based on their value and their customer lifetime value with you. And that then informs your strategy.

But while you're doing [00:29:00] that, there's still that need to get the immediate gratification. And so like what we've been doing is like, well, we're not going to like turn the faucet totally off, but based on what we're learning with our ideals, like what are some things that we can start tweaking over here just so that we can better qualify

that volume and you also have to like, in some cases, like I'm thinking of one client where they have a product that isn't necessarily their profit maker. It's kind of a lead loss. But they know that there's opportunity that if they can get someone in on that product and they do nurture them well, that then they can grow with them in other ways.

They haven't done that really well before, so like, as we've learned about our ideal client types, we noticed that some of them started with that product. So then that allowed us to put an extra magnifying glass on it and say, okay. We're going to put together like a nurturing strategy around this [00:30:00] individual, individual type around this product and then we're just going to start making some optimizations and tweaks in the way that we are maybe sending automated emails or they have like an app so they can send like, app notifications and whatnot.

So we've just been kind of doing these like little drip type of experiments to see if we can, once they, you know, mature from that product, do we keep them on and as we keep them on, do they start to look like any of these other ideal client types? So I think that's the way that you have to think about it.

It's not saying like turn the faucet off on what you're doing, but focus your energy here. Take what you're learning and find ways that you can start tweaking that experience. And then over time, I think you're going to find that there are just some that are kind of like not worth it. To go after and that's okay because not every person will be your customer.

Alyssa McGinn: Yeah. And I also think that [00:31:00] one thing that can be really powerful that we've talked about is, like, this isn't only going to be data from your CRM.

Right. Like, bringing in, like, the true numbers is, like, I mean, now that they're, you can't, you could do it in your CRM and you could get a really good idea. But you're also, which I think you're going to get into, like trusting that your salesperson, they might have swagged that contract value or what they thought it was going to be worth.

Jordan Walker: Overestimated what it was going to be worth.

Alyssa McGinn: Then when you bring in the accounting data, it's like you actually know that this is the actual amount that your client has spent with you over time, paid Signed, sealed, delivered money. And so, I just want to throw that in there because

Jordan Walker: That's a good thing to mention, and that kind of goes into the second area of customer experience data that every business should track, and that goes into customer interactions. The CRM system, like, I absolutely agree, like, I, unless you have your accounting [00:32:00] software also connected to it, to where, which I rarely see ever, yeah, I don't really feel like I see that, that often where you can actually match up, like, okay, this is what we thought it would be, but then this is what it ended up selling for, like, cool, beautiful, but Besides that, always correlate it to the accounting data, your CRM system, though, should be able to help us understand what was their buying experience like with us, and it needs to, like going back to the earlier example that you gave, if you're in discovery, sessions with customers, or you're having them fill out an onboarding form or something like that, Those data points should be in your CRM so you know how to continue working with that person.

It is a sales benefit to do that, and it's also useful for us to be able to then say, okay, well, what themes are we seeing? Let's build out this ideal client type. So if you've got your segments, then you can use a tool like a CRM, especially if it's connected to [00:33:00] your email, your calendar, maybe your phone, like all of your different tools that you use for sales and marketing

Alyssa McGinn: Mm

Jordan Walker: That allows, you know, your marketing team essentially to say, okay, if these are ideal customer types, here's what that looks like, so that they can put their time and energy into the right buckets as well. Then you end up saving money, too, because you're not splashing paid dollars everywhere.

Alyssa McGinn: CRM equals customer relationship management system.

I just want to say that because I've said that a few times and people are like, What is that? So

Jordan Walker: I'm glad that you said that, and I feel like we need to kind of say it out loud, because as we've talked about, there's a lot of challenge with, like, just keeping a CRM system up to date. But if you think about it as your relationship management tool, like this is your way of making your sales life easier.

And also marketing will love you.

Alyssa McGinn: Love you.

Jordan Walker: they can be better at their job for you. Like you could really become a lot better [00:34:00] partners if the CRM was just fully activated.

Alyssa McGinn: I saw really quick. I thought you'd appreciate this. A random guy's LinkedIn profile. His bio was, Chief Data Silo Crusher. And I was like, yes.

Jordan Walker: Yeah, I love that.

Alyssa McGinn: I feel like Jordan would appreciate that, and that's like, it's good to know there's other people out there fighting the good fight.

Jordan Walker: Yeah. Like, listen, I understand everybody has a role to play in the game, but just because you're in a different department doesn't mean that you can't collaborate. And I think that's been something that we've mentioned frequently on this podcast is that data is data. Numbers are numbers until you have a story to tell with it.

And that comes with additional context, which. Customer experience data can help with if you're gathering that qualitative type feedback. But good old fashioned collaboration and conversation with your colleagues can also help

Alyssa McGinn: Can't be beat

Jordan Walker: a bit. Can't be beat.

Alyssa McGinn: AI can't overtake that,

Jordan Walker: Yeah, I mean, it could, but you got to train it first.

Yeah, you got to spend [00:35:00] time doing that first, which, okay, third type is then customer feedback. Like in a lot of you know, midsize organizations probably have like some sort of customer satisfaction survey and PS score, that sort of thing where they're kind of getting the pulse check. That's really great way of getting some of those anecdotes back.

But also like if you're a, let's say an e commerce platform, like you've probably seen things like After the product has been delivered, you get like a quick, you know, email that's just like rate your experience and you can just easily do it within the

Alyssa McGinn: email

When it launches another browser, I'm like, no.

Jordan Walker: Yeah. No, keep it in the email. Yeah.

Same. Like, I don't want to go anywhere else, like that's actually a zero so there's a term for that. It's called the zero click. And social media has been really like talking about it as well, where instead of like always thinking about how do you send somebody to something else? Like how can you actually just keep the experience on the platform that they want to be on?

Which can also like, I mean, if you can be good at creating great [00:36:00] conversations on your social media platform, like if you're one of those brands that can post like

a relevant meme or whatever that then gets like 20 people commenting on it. Those 20 different comments could possibly be used as some qualitative data depending on what looking for. And so, I mean, there are tools that can help you mine it into a platform like Brandwatch or Meltwater or something like that. Or good old fashion, copy and paste and then dump that into chat GPT and ask it to develop some themes for you.

Alyssa McGinn: Yeah, I mean, keep it simple.

Jordan Walker: Yeah, so okay, you can with customer feedback, you can dynamically capture by including it in your sales and customer service process.

I like to kind of say that like as you're gathering customer feedback, consider like gamifying it a little bit or think about different ways that you can actually like ask the question. A good example that I read in a a lead conversion book that I have called converted is it was looking at [00:37:00] hotels.

And so, you know, typically when, like, you're checking out of a hotel, if you actually talk to somebody, you know, how was your stay? Is there anything that, you know, we could have done better? Typically, you're not going to get great, you know, like, Oh, stay was fine. Unless again, it was like, Oh, it was amazing or, Oh, it was horrible.

You know, like that gray area, you're probably not going to get a lot of, but if you ask more specific questions that doesn't leave it so open ended for them to just give you any elusive response or feel panicked, like, I don't know what you want me to tell you. You could ask things like, was the room comfortable and at the right temperature for you?

Like, get more specific with it or Hey, I see that you rang the desk a few times while you were here. Was there anything that our staff could have done better to anticipate what you needed?

Alyssa McGinn: Yeah.

Jordan Walker: Asking it rather than how was your stay. You know, you're gonna get lackluster response, get more specific, and then you start getting better feedback.

And so there are ways that you can do that within your process.

Alyssa McGinn: Yeah. [00:38:00] I was thinking about that in our context. And one of the things. We have trouble with is transferring our client, a new client from the sales relationship to the technical team and making sure that knowledge transfer and their experience is good. So what you said made me think, like, I should ask specifically, like, how did you feel, like, how did, how was your experience transferring to the actual work

Jordan Walker: Yeah. How did that transition feel

Alyssa McGinn: for you?

Jordan Walker: Yeah. Was there anything that we could have communicated better before? Like, I think that's where you can kind of start getting

Alyssa McGinn: into that.

Jordan Walker: specifics.

Alyssa McGinn: Taking

Jordan Walker: Yeah. So I'm sure like all want to continue nerding out on customer experience data throughout our podcast.

But I wanted this to be kind of just like a foundational entry conversation that then maybe we can spin off and tell some like stories of how CX data has actually helped improve ROI and customer lifetime value

Alyssa McGinn: We should just do story

Jordan Walker: Let's do story time.

Alyssa McGinn: Because I feel like we have, we sprinkle stories in, but we don't get the full Monty of them.[00:39:00]

Yeah. All the time because we don't have.

We just talk too much about all the, like, concepts, you know, and I feel like the stories is what's like relatable to people. And so let's do that.

Jordan Walker: All right. Well, cool. Now we've got our homework before our next recording

Alyssa McGinn: Story time at Insightly.

Jordan Walker: Awesome. Well, that is where we're going to conclude today's episode. So if you enjoyed this, please like, share, subscribe. And if you want to talk to us, you can dip into our mailbox at hello at insightlypodcast. com.

Alyssa McGinn: Talk to you later.